Mike Guglielmucci - Response to Comments

Wow! What a crazy situation this one is.

There are so many unanswered questions and such a wide range of opinions and feelings. I made two blog posts (see below) on this news item yesterday and have now had over 10,000 page views from people all over cyberspace since that time (a normal average is 300-500 a day), with around 100 comments. [Total page views ended up being well over 30,000 the weekend this news was released]

I have read each comment but, unfortunately, I won't be able to respond to each one personally. There are a lot of good insights and thoughts in the comments. Obviously, some people have taken a very merciful approach while others have been more judgmental. Others have been quite discerning about some of the broader issues that definitely play into this situation. All perspectives need to be heard and understood.

Yes, it would have been great if someone had discerned all of this ahead of time but no one did, although I understand that there was some cause for suspicion. Anyway, if someone is lying, you only know it if God reveals it to you. For some reason, God did not grant discernment on this issue to anyone, at least that we know of. At least the truth is out now where hopefully it can be dealt with appropriately. 

For those of us who are followers of Christ, let's pray ... "Father, we pray for Mike, that he will find a place of forgiveness for this serious wrong that he has done. We pray for his family, that you will give them grace during this incredibly difficult time. We pray for the church across Australia and beyond, that we will be able to process this with grace and truth. May we all use this as a wakeup call about the importance of living lives of integrity. Amen."

Finally, thanks for the words of encouragement from many. I'm glad that this blog can be a tool to help people process their emotions and share their thoughts with one another. That is a positive thing. Take the time to listen to different people and then reflect on your own opinions. After all, our own perspective says as much about ourselves as it does about this situation. This issue simply becomes a trigger for revealing how we see God, the world, ourselves, and other people. May God help each one of us to learn and grow through the whole process.

Mark Conner

Comments

[Janice]

Mark,
You know, the first time I heard you preach 3 years ago I must admit I was side-tracked by the red hair - which I confess I have a generalisation about! And yet somehow God in His infinate wisdom (and humour)openned my eyes to the leader, preacher, husband, father and man before me. This red-headed man turned out to be a man who I would come to respect and learn from. Go figure! God bless you Mark as you honour God with wisdom and discernment.

Your Casey Connection,
J

[K]

Hi Mark,

Wow... what a week! My first response to the news was "but for the grace of God there go I"... how easily we can be deceived by the strategies of the evil one. It is profoundly sad news, but also gives me even more determination to be vigilent in staying close to my Lord. To be careful when I think I'm standing (of my own accord), lest I crash and burn!

Thank you so much for tackling the news of both Mike and Todd is such a frank, open and real manner. Having come out of a congregation where senior pastors were more concerned with how the building and those on stage looked rather than the issues lurking below shiny veneers, it is so refreshing to see a Christian leader not afraid to just be real, acknowledging things for what they are and then offering a Godly response straight from the Word. Well done, Mark and Nicole - a high distinction for Integrity!

Another CityLifer,
K

[leanne]

hi. this brings up qa lot of unhealed hurts in my life where in my young and immature state, I went to a hyped up pentecostal church as well. the pastor immediately took to me and started trying to groom me. i was a fresh new christian. i learnt a lot from him and started to grow. in time he wanted more and said to me that it was normal that we showed each other affection because this was part of showing Gods love and this was ok but i couldnt tell anyone as i was being treated extra special. without knowing i just thought that i was blessed to be in a position where i was close to him so that i could learn from him. this eventually led to a sexual sin which according to him was ok at that time because it showed love. once things blew up, he left me in the lurch and cast me away and threatened me that if i told anyone that he would spread a lot of lies and spread that i was promiscuous etc. i stayed silent but in depression for many years and left the church in confusion as he had told my community and friends that i was a bad person and liar and not trustworthy. i lost many trusted friends who of course trusted their wonderful megastar pastor. i have not been able to forgive fully and only recently about 2 months ago managed to muster enough courage to crawl back to church after years in hope that i can find Jesus somewhere again. i find it hard to trust and am not open with people as mylife to a certain extent is a large secret. Stories like this make me lose faith once again, i dont understand at all. there is so much on the blogs about love, forgiving, biblical but if people knew the pain of the betrayed trust. i was on help line stopping myself from committing suicide at one point. betrayal of heart matters and emotions is not a simple..lets forget about it matter.. It cuts deep into the soul. lets not brush it aside as well as we help our brothers and sisters process this information. as for me, i still remain in confusion and i will need to decide which way i walk.

[Serius]

Leanne,
Betrayal like you experienced is probably one of the worst people face - because "God" is tagged to the betrayal. I watch victims of spiritual abuse wade through many of the emotions, grief and heartache you are experiencing. Trust broken like that takes a long time to heal. I recommend a devotional book by Jean Varnier "the Broken Body" - Jean is the founder of l'arche community. he has a good grip theologically and experientally on the difficulties that come with community, especially when trust is broken. My prayer is that the Father, whose love is pure and perfect, will continue to guide your journey, and that you would again experience the joy of close, safe christian community.

[The questions]

How could such a song of truth come from such a lie

[Hamish]

I hope an audit of everything prophetic at Hillsong is happening. Jez mentioned other words/prophecies from senior pastors regarding the promise of healing.

I trust that anyone at Hillsong, who had been a trusted person with regards to words of knowledge or prophecy, having prophecied or confirmed anything regarding Mike fraud, be removed.

[cathy]

There is a difference between forgiving someone and reconciling with them. The bible calls us to forgive, but forgiveness can't come if repentance hasn't taken place, and sometimes the trust is broken so great that we can never find a place to reconcile with the person again. It’s ok to feel this way, because we are called to ’sin not’ which means the principle of forgiveness must reign, but it surprises me that some can forgive blindly and not understand that in doing it before a full confession and apology is made - enables a person to keep abusing. We must value boundaries of what we allow to happen to us, and overall what we tolerate, otherwise we don't have a safe sense of 'self'. This lesson is learned by all those who suffer abuse and have to forgive the perpetrator as Christ followers. But they don’t have to go back and live with them and certainly should not do so, if the perpetrator has not made full confession.

Secondly, I have heard a lot of people saying it must be ‘mental illness’. Most people with mental illness are upright and moral. They don’t commit fraudulent acts. The level of deception, which is breathtaking is calculated, planned and executed with full knowledge of what he is doing to everyone around him, even if it was a 'rolling stone' that got out of control from a small lie in the beginning. As a mental health nurse let me tell you that the clinical diagnosis for Munchausen’s (faking an illness) specifically excludes ‘financial gain’, as a contributing diagnosing factor. Munchausen’s sufferers cause pain and injury to themselves, for no personal gain other than attention and the usual issues people with personality disorder’s display. Please don’t get confused. People with mental health issues don’t deserve to be included in this unfortunate betrayal.

Thirdly, we need to seriously understand that man is a sinful being. That’s why we need God. So to pass this off as mental illness, and to let him off the hook before there is full repentance and a full disclosure, is not doing him any favours, and above all else, for his own sake, I hope those helping him understand the power of a challenging and rigorous opportunity for him to come ‘totally clean’. This is the only hope for his full restoration. If such a lie has been perpetrated for two years, so can his confession. I hope it is full and frank, and that those helping him rightly check out all the stories and all the facts, and call him to total account.

The healing we all need at this betrayal is as much about learning that being a Christian is not about allowing abuse to happen to us, but to stand in righteous anger, ask for answers, give permission to be angry but 'sin not' and stand strong on the only rock who is our fortress at a time like this. Grace can be extended when we know that we are frail, and sinful, except for a sinless Jesus who covers our own filthy clothes. But that same precious, very expensively paid for grace grants us rights to invoke personal boundaries that keep us safe from sinful abuse.

[F]

Mike will be on Today Tonight. Just thought I'd let everyone know

[Marie]

To the poster 2 posts above. Perhaps he didn't do it for money but attention and approval?

Andrew Evans claims "he has ruined his whole life." (yesterdays Adelaide Advertiser.)
Of course he has only ruined his whole life if it is only acceptable to God for him to be a Pastor and that there is no forgiveness or other job or role in life.

If he had become a scientist, got married, loved his wife and family and spent time with them, loved his job, discovered/invented something or did important research. Was admired by his work mates for being intelligent kind and fair with a passion for life. And he was a committed Christian who had attended church on Sundays - he would have been considered a FAILURE by most in his church.
Because A-list Christians are "sold out" "given up every-thing" working full time in the ministry - out every night building the Kingdom of God. Doing "amazing exploits and changing the world."

Actually the people changing the world are more likely to be the scientist guy or the ordinary guy, loving and being part of the world. But these people often get no respect in church circles. They are considered "Sunday Christians" and not committed.

Part of the warning in this disaster is for us to think about how we value people.

[B]

I am a fairly young girl, and i have been brought up in a christian family my whole life. I grew up in Asia where my parents did missionary work and i have experienced many walks of life. I find this whole situation regarding Mike Guglielmucci incredibly intriguing in many ways. Personally i have never been a huge fan of large pentecostal churches for although i believe they truly cater to the way in which some people worship and view god, they can be very overpowering and emotionally overbearing for others. In the times i have visited planet shakers i have found the emotional hype overpowers the way in which the scriptures are preached and i do not feel as though God is depicted in a realistic way in terms of how christians can relate to this modern world. Australia unlike America is not a christian based nation and this particular situation regarding Mike Guglielmucci will just give people more reason to justify their already skeptical views of religion.
Essentially as Christians we should eventually come to terms with the velocity of Mike's actions and be able to forgive him but i do not believe he should be excused in any matter of speaking. his actions were of a selfish nature and is a complete exploitation of peoples pain and already fragile faith.
Whoever is reading this, i would like it to be understood that i actually do not find this situation to be as negative as it may seem that i do. I do not believe 'Utitlitarianism' to be a a realistic notion in terms of government but i am going to use it as an example in the point i am striving to make. From a utitilitarian point of view (effectively meaning 'for the greater good') i believe Guglielmucci's severe error in judgement may cause the high end pentecostal churches to rethink and re-strategies their ways in which they handle accountability within the church system. I also believe it will cause people to accept less of a 'spoon-fed' mentality. People need to know what they believe in why they believe in it. That's why i cannot condone emotional hype as a means to coming to know Jesus. And that's more or less what Mike was doing in his attempt to tug at heart strings. I believe he felt pressure to have a story, to show people what God could do, he did not have enough accountability in the way he was going about his alleged illness. Not unlike other figurehead positions in all church including catholic and baptist. Not unlike figurehead positions in any religion including Buddhism, Hinduism and Muslims. They become a form of a God in themselves and it has become sadly inevitable in Large pentacostal churches. It is even more upsetting that he was involved with youth because young minds are more impressionable and are also more emotionally inclined than those of a wiser nature.
If the 'church' can pull itself together and deliberate how to solve this by glorifying god in the best way they believe possible then this mess can have a positive outcome. It can promote Change and movement.

Before i finish i would just like to say i am only a teenager myself and my views may come across that way but i feel the youth should have the right to contribute to how this is dealt with considering he was a large part of youth ministry within planet shakers.

also i wrote this in the height of thought, so forgive me if their are spelling or grammar errors.

thankyou for you time,

B.

[alk]

When I learnt about the news first time, I was saddened. It was only a few weeks ago that my daughter and I were watching the video where he was singing and sharing testimony as well as the others sharing their thoughts/views. I was commenting to my daughter how he looks good and doing well for someone who has terminal cancer. I was also telling my daughter that when any of us face any trial, we need to look at the whole thing in view of eternity. People can go through their trials and keep faith because they believe in eternity. My belief in eternity, in what is in store for me when I get to heaven is what keeps me going and what keeps me believing. We are all accountable, no one is excused for giving account to how we have managed stewarship of our lives, this includes how our lives have influenced others or affected others. I pray that this event, while it has hurt, or disappointed a lot of people, will not affect our view of eternity and heaven. I look at this as two-fold, to let Mike understand/know that it was not him all along that is touching people and causing people to draw close to God, because he (Mike) knew that he is living a life of deception, it was God all along, not Mike. The other part is that God needs to be the focal point of every worship, focus on Him, not anyone nor any circumstance or happening, because if there is anyone or anything that becomes the focal point, then that is when problems are birthed.
Let God arise!!!!!

[Nannarob]

At this time I just remember what Jesus said: ref John 8:7

I also remember that NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN HIM and I am sure Michael will be healed albeit of a different sickness

My heart goes out to those who have been hurt and I pray that you will all be able to cast your burdens upon the Lord and He will take them from your shoulders - a hard task in the flesh but remember - NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN HIM.

Take Care & God Bless

[Kevin]

I agree about discernment to a certain extent, but there is much to say about a church whose leaders are not involved in an open and honest fellowship with each other. That is foundational. Lets not use God's revelation and supreme sovereignty as a means to justify the failed responsibility of the church.
The openness and accountability of Christians is an essential part of any church leadership. 1 Timothy is very clear on the strict and profound process for electing leaders in the church.
Of course There is forgiveness for the sins at play here, This man who fell short if repentant is granted forgiveness fairly easily. He is a man and we all can understand our own struggles with sin (Romans 7). Ultimately if he is truly repentant our forgiveness will always come much easier than his own.
but its not necessarily crucifying the church to expose the errors that caused such a tragedy. And the church here made a grievous error that demands a call for full repentance. And a call to action and movement away from the things that caused their sin. After all repentance is a verb.

God is in control, and perhaps his purpose in all this is to call his people back to the kind of church outlined in scripture. Where there is close intimate bonds between the body of believers and where we are carrying each other burden's, and confessing our sins to one another. Leadership in the church is something that should be handled with extreme care. 1 Timothy 3 and anything other than absolute dedication to the word of God in this area is a sin that needs to be confronted.

The "rock concert" church atmosphere is exciting and can bring emotional highs, but are we missing what Christ and the first leaders had in mind when they described the Church? Perhaps it is time to rethink our idea of church again. What were the first church's like? what was that enviornment? How far from there have we grown?

[Marlo Philip]

Well, Church is a workshop and not a showroom. These things will happen but it gives also an oppurtunity for believers of the same faith to step up and evaluate their own personal lives. We are too busy doing life but what about our character and application of the fundamental Christian values like love, integrity, forgiveness etc. The news is shocking to many thousands of Mike's wellwishers but its a reality that we face. I believe there is an anointing in that song'Healer' whatsover has happened with the song writer today... Lets press on and lift Jesus high in a time like this and not b e ashamed of the gospel- it has the POWER!

[Tim]

not one of us is without sin...let he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone. God forgives all sin apon asking.... that is why he died for us

[Tim]

The one think i find this does. Is makes us examine ourselfs againt to make sure we are right with God. Today to many christians base there faith on great men of God rather then God himself. i beleive if we fall when a so called man of god falls it shows that our faith is in them more then God. Its fine to grieve in situations like this but we need to keep our faith in christ. I pray for mike and his family but i also pray for the church australia wide, I think this will open manys eyes in the church and we can see where we need to step it up in our faith and relationships with christ.